Dylan Has Always Fucked with The Simple Minded (Internet Dialoge)
Bob Dylan: a poet and a poseur
Well, do you generally agree with this article you posted?
===
No, it was simply a different view rather than the overzealous
Dylan can do no wrong" style of others I read. I disagree with
most of it.
===
If so, I would assume that by extension, its sentiment equally applies to
how you view anyone's literary appreciation of Mr. Townshend.
===
I have yet to develop any "written in stone" views on Pete's literary
abilities, but I sense great things coming........
===
It is my view that the writer of this article is wrong about Dylan.
===
Absolutely.
===
He is
reluctant to admit that anything produced in a "pop" incubator will have a
literary life beyond the flash of media frenzy. It won't stand up in 50
years as say a Rimbaud or even a Ginsberg would.
===
Dylan was put inside a pop incubator by the machinery, and the fans.
He himself, I believe, having read his "Chronicles Volume One," had a
different destiny in mind, however ill defined it may have been. He repeatedly
says that he "knew something was going to happen for him" of that he "knew
he was going to do something different, but not how" or things to this effect.
===
Dylan grooming his image does not take away from his contribution. Not
anymore than it did Mozart, Oscar Wilde, Picasso or Andy Warhol.
===
Dylan's image was self-groomed, for the most part, and mid-career,
according to his book, he redefined himself in order to escape his
fame, and the horrors it brought with it (fawning fans).
===
What's more
it's not even necessary that Bob Dylan even acknowledge what he's done.
Because he's not done. He is always becoming.
===
Dylan acknowledges what he's done, it's just that he views it
differently than much of the public and press. Just like the mind
F*#@ he has ALWAYS had with the public and press over the
meaning of his songs, whether they were protest songs or not, etc.,
Dylan is still mindf*#@ing with the "simple of mind" when he speaks of,
or denies, his effect on the cultural revolution of the last 40-45
years, or how his music has affected us all, including himself.
A talent such as Dylan's and Townshend's will ne're be completed
until such a time as they stop performing, especially since Pete's
music is and has always been a _form_ of performance art, however
Pop, however adolescent, however angst ridden..
===
Your reaction to what you consider parasitic fawning over these reluctant
artistic heroes seems informed by your own relation to Rock & Roll. In other
words, "Hey man, its kick ass rock and roll. Rock out and leave these guys
alone."
===
Somewhat so, but I'm not going to be backed into a corner to define
it, you are welcome to feel anyway anyhow anywhere you choose.
That said, that mind-set was my choice when I had the opportunity
to meet Entwistle backstage at the Hollywood Bowl in 2000. I opted
to pass and let it be, rather than be another fan who infringes upon
his privacy/time with nothing new to say or offer.
I'd already met Moonie in '75, spent an hour with him drinking cognac
at his bidding/invitation, and having done so, as well as not being
interested in Entwistle as a person or his solo records/career post-1980,
I opted to pass.
Townshend? I'd honestly just want to play guitar with him. Something like
"So Sad About Us" or "Tattoo," "I'm One" or "The Good's Gone."
===
And you know what, do a degree you're right. That sums up the "pop" factor
of rock performance. You know more about that than I ever will.
===
I know much, less than many, and more than some, but _my_ time
in RnR as a fan is nearly over, there is a horrible wasteland in today's
music, conglomeratively speaking, as Pete says in so many words
in "The Boy Who-> Heard Music."
ALMOST ALL the music I now spend my precoius time on has stood
The Acid Test of Time, and I only delve deeper and deeper into it. I will
not waste my time on the garbage to which Pete refers in "TBWHMusic."
The fan of the present and future is a different animal than Pete/Dylan,
or myself.
Like Ginsberg to Dylan..the torch has been passed...
....meet the new fan...same as the old fan.......
===
But what the
writer of this article, and I suspect you, fail to realize that every age
produces its great thinkers and artists who use the idiom of their choice to
say something about the world around them. And they teach us about ourselves
in ways we can't manage on our own. That's art.
===
I fail not, to miss that factor, it is the very substance of success and successful
marketing and the maintenance of a career.
It's nothing new, breathe the air that's been blown you....
===
I fail to understand why you include me in your statement....but, I can assure
you that the likes of Dylan and Towser have taught me a lot through the years,
about myself, and much much more.
===
I too, and I continue to learn from these men, though I wish Lennon was
standing at their sides this very day. They are my Big Three.
===
Is Dylan a poet that will be studied long after we are food for worms? I
believe so. If for no other reason, because he chronicled what America was
going through in the 60s in a way that no prose can. He cooked it down and
sang it out. And I happen to think his performance of it is a important as
words on a page.
===
Yes, and to have seen it performed onstage is _your_ mission now...
....fore Dylan and Pete, along with their peers, are now the aged ones.
Moreso, the live public performance affects people, albeit in much
smaller numbers, to a greater degree than the printed word.
However, the combination of the two experiences provide the
longer lasting impact..as anyone who saw Tommy or Quadrophenia
performed on their representative tours back in the day can attest.
The Punks need to follow the Godfathers.
===
However, does Dylan the man that draws breath today have anything new to
tell us outside of the songs he continues to write? No. At least not in
conversation or to any fawning fan. He separates himself from that.
Sometimes frustratingly so.
===
I disagree, but no amount of words will make my reasons clear, I think
you'd have to be relatively of Dylan's age group, and/or realise that his
perspective is JUST as valid now as it ever was.
Accepting what he has to say...accepting that it is the "Truth" as he sees
it now, whether you like it or not. Read his book, walk in his autobiographical
shoes a few pages and you'll find out why he separates himself
from being accessible in person or via his words to fawning fans.
Besides, who flatters themselves to be intellectual enough to
understand Dylan?
Only a fool.
===
As good as it is, it is Scorsesee's film that
will be an artifact of this time forgotten to time. But "Blowing in the
Wind" will still teach the listener something for hundreds of years. Dylan
may still have some of these gems left in him.
===
As some journalist noted during the 70s, "the record album is THE
art form of this decade."
With the decline in the ability of people to read, write, speak clearly,
pronounce and enunciate language well, as well as the written word
being on its way out due to "net-speak/net-spell" (find F. Lee Bailey's
essay from earlier this year on the subject) books and even film as
we know it will be lost as art forms within a few years.
I treasure language, and the art of "the use of language" is being
lost so rapidly.
Music? Well, "The Boy Who-> Heard Music" addresses that pretty well,
no?
===
I happen to think that Mr. Townshend is cut from some of the same cloth. And
I feel fortunate that I am able to be alive while both of these artists are
still with us and productive.
===
Get on you kness and pray...for thanks!
===
Sometimes I imagine that someone put me in a
time machine and said, if you could go back and tell Pete Townshend
something while he was alive, what would you say? It's a bit silly, I know.
I know you must hate that kind of thinking.
===
Not really, this is the most challenging email to come my
way via thewho@itgc.com in years.
===
You are a bit obnoxious with your taunts and insults.
===
Really? I'd never noticed!
===
But where I actually
think we would agree is this. These are just men with guitars and pens.
Leave them alone to do what they must. They put it all into their published
works. If one must look, look there. But don't bug them with our "pop"
demands. I get it.
===
So it now appears.
===
However, I also hope that we get a recording of some of this stuff with
Roger's voice at least, because it's so fucking cool to hear. It's not a
demand now. Just a wish.
===
I hope your dream comes true...for me, as has been for 25 years,
I prefer Pete's solo material and Pete's voice. A well documented fact.
===
Go ahead, launch away on me. I suspect you and your wife are having a good
old hoot at all this. I
===
She's on the digest. There's nothing funny about your comments, they are
for the most part, quite enlightened.
===
t's certainly more of a response than you deserve.
===
"You can't always get what you want,
but if you try, sometimes, you'll find,
you get what you need"
~MJ/KR 1969
Thank you for such a well thought response, and the dignity with which
you presented it to me.
AnEnglishBoy~
Well, do you generally agree with this article you posted?
===
No, it was simply a different view rather than the overzealous
Dylan can do no wrong" style of others I read. I disagree with
most of it.
===
If so, I would assume that by extension, its sentiment equally applies to
how you view anyone's literary appreciation of Mr. Townshend.
===
I have yet to develop any "written in stone" views on Pete's literary
abilities, but I sense great things coming........
===
It is my view that the writer of this article is wrong about Dylan.
===
Absolutely.
===
He is
reluctant to admit that anything produced in a "pop" incubator will have a
literary life beyond the flash of media frenzy. It won't stand up in 50
years as say a Rimbaud or even a Ginsberg would.
===
Dylan was put inside a pop incubator by the machinery, and the fans.
He himself, I believe, having read his "Chronicles Volume One," had a
different destiny in mind, however ill defined it may have been. He repeatedly
says that he "knew something was going to happen for him" of that he "knew
he was going to do something different, but not how" or things to this effect.
===
Dylan grooming his image does not take away from his contribution. Not
anymore than it did Mozart, Oscar Wilde, Picasso or Andy Warhol.
===
Dylan's image was self-groomed, for the most part, and mid-career,
according to his book, he redefined himself in order to escape his
fame, and the horrors it brought with it (fawning fans).
===
What's more
it's not even necessary that Bob Dylan even acknowledge what he's done.
Because he's not done. He is always becoming.
===
Dylan acknowledges what he's done, it's just that he views it
differently than much of the public and press. Just like the mind
F*#@ he has ALWAYS had with the public and press over the
meaning of his songs, whether they were protest songs or not, etc.,
Dylan is still mindf*#@ing with the "simple of mind" when he speaks of,
or denies, his effect on the cultural revolution of the last 40-45
years, or how his music has affected us all, including himself.
A talent such as Dylan's and Townshend's will ne're be completed
until such a time as they stop performing, especially since Pete's
music is and has always been a _form_ of performance art, however
Pop, however adolescent, however angst ridden..
===
Your reaction to what you consider parasitic fawning over these reluctant
artistic heroes seems informed by your own relation to Rock & Roll. In other
words, "Hey man, its kick ass rock and roll. Rock out and leave these guys
alone."
===
Somewhat so, but I'm not going to be backed into a corner to define
it, you are welcome to feel anyway anyhow anywhere you choose.
That said, that mind-set was my choice when I had the opportunity
to meet Entwistle backstage at the Hollywood Bowl in 2000. I opted
to pass and let it be, rather than be another fan who infringes upon
his privacy/time with nothing new to say or offer.
I'd already met Moonie in '75, spent an hour with him drinking cognac
at his bidding/invitation, and having done so, as well as not being
interested in Entwistle as a person or his solo records/career post-1980,
I opted to pass.
Townshend? I'd honestly just want to play guitar with him. Something like
"So Sad About Us" or "Tattoo," "I'm One" or "The Good's Gone."
===
And you know what, do a degree you're right. That sums up the "pop" factor
of rock performance. You know more about that than I ever will.
===
I know much, less than many, and more than some, but _my_ time
in RnR as a fan is nearly over, there is a horrible wasteland in today's
music, conglomeratively speaking, as Pete says in so many words
in "The Boy Who-> Heard Music."
ALMOST ALL the music I now spend my precoius time on has stood
The Acid Test of Time, and I only delve deeper and deeper into it. I will
not waste my time on the garbage to which Pete refers in "TBWHMusic."
The fan of the present and future is a different animal than Pete/Dylan,
or myself.
Like Ginsberg to Dylan..the torch has been passed...
....meet the new fan...same as the old fan.......
===
But what the
writer of this article, and I suspect you, fail to realize that every age
produces its great thinkers and artists who use the idiom of their choice to
say something about the world around them. And they teach us about ourselves
in ways we can't manage on our own. That's art.
===
I fail not, to miss that factor, it is the very substance of success and successful
marketing and the maintenance of a career.
It's nothing new, breathe the air that's been blown you....
===
I fail to understand why you include me in your statement....but, I can assure
you that the likes of Dylan and Towser have taught me a lot through the years,
about myself, and much much more.
===
I too, and I continue to learn from these men, though I wish Lennon was
standing at their sides this very day. They are my Big Three.
===
Is Dylan a poet that will be studied long after we are food for worms? I
believe so. If for no other reason, because he chronicled what America was
going through in the 60s in a way that no prose can. He cooked it down and
sang it out. And I happen to think his performance of it is a important as
words on a page.
===
Yes, and to have seen it performed onstage is _your_ mission now...
....fore Dylan and Pete, along with their peers, are now the aged ones.
Moreso, the live public performance affects people, albeit in much
smaller numbers, to a greater degree than the printed word.
However, the combination of the two experiences provide the
longer lasting impact..as anyone who saw Tommy or Quadrophenia
performed on their representative tours back in the day can attest.
The Punks need to follow the Godfathers.
===
However, does Dylan the man that draws breath today have anything new to
tell us outside of the songs he continues to write? No. At least not in
conversation or to any fawning fan. He separates himself from that.
Sometimes frustratingly so.
===
I disagree, but no amount of words will make my reasons clear, I think
you'd have to be relatively of Dylan's age group, and/or realise that his
perspective is JUST as valid now as it ever was.
Accepting what he has to say...accepting that it is the "Truth" as he sees
it now, whether you like it or not. Read his book, walk in his autobiographical
shoes a few pages and you'll find out why he separates himself
from being accessible in person or via his words to fawning fans.
Besides, who flatters themselves to be intellectual enough to
understand Dylan?
Only a fool.
===
As good as it is, it is Scorsesee's film that
will be an artifact of this time forgotten to time. But "Blowing in the
Wind" will still teach the listener something for hundreds of years. Dylan
may still have some of these gems left in him.
===
As some journalist noted during the 70s, "the record album is THE
art form of this decade."
With the decline in the ability of people to read, write, speak clearly,
pronounce and enunciate language well, as well as the written word
being on its way out due to "net-speak/net-spell" (find F. Lee Bailey's
essay from earlier this year on the subject) books and even film as
we know it will be lost as art forms within a few years.
I treasure language, and the art of "the use of language" is being
lost so rapidly.
Music? Well, "The Boy Who-> Heard Music" addresses that pretty well,
no?
===
I happen to think that Mr. Townshend is cut from some of the same cloth. And
I feel fortunate that I am able to be alive while both of these artists are
still with us and productive.
===
Get on you kness and pray...for thanks!
===
Sometimes I imagine that someone put me in a
time machine and said, if you could go back and tell Pete Townshend
something while he was alive, what would you say? It's a bit silly, I know.
I know you must hate that kind of thinking.
===
Not really, this is the most challenging email to come my
way via thewho@itgc.com in years.
===
You are a bit obnoxious with your taunts and insults.
===
Really? I'd never noticed!
===
But where I actually
think we would agree is this. These are just men with guitars and pens.
Leave them alone to do what they must. They put it all into their published
works. If one must look, look there. But don't bug them with our "pop"
demands. I get it.
===
So it now appears.
===
However, I also hope that we get a recording of some of this stuff with
Roger's voice at least, because it's so fucking cool to hear. It's not a
demand now. Just a wish.
===
I hope your dream comes true...for me, as has been for 25 years,
I prefer Pete's solo material and Pete's voice. A well documented fact.
===
Go ahead, launch away on me. I suspect you and your wife are having a good
old hoot at all this. I
===
She's on the digest. There's nothing funny about your comments, they are
for the most part, quite enlightened.
===
t's certainly more of a response than you deserve.
===
"You can't always get what you want,
but if you try, sometimes, you'll find,
you get what you need"
~MJ/KR 1969
Thank you for such a well thought response, and the dignity with which
you presented it to me.
AnEnglishBoy~
posted by The Opinionated Bastard at 3:51 PM
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